I'm Searching For A Banjo With “Growl”

I didn't know how to describe the tone I am seeking in a banjo until today. It is called “growl.”

I am so frustrated trying to find the Holy Grail of banjos. It's been one disappointment after another since 2021. I had originally ordered a Deering Sierra with a mahogany neck from Banjo.com. Barry Waldrep said it would be 4 to 6 weeks to receive it, which turned into 5 months! When I got it, the intonation was unfixable and ridiculously way off, just like the Hatfield Arthur sent me a couple weeks ago. What frustrates me is that Banjo.com advertises that they do a professional setup on all their banjos before shipping them to the customers. Well, then why did mine sound like crap with horrible intonation and bad buzz on strings 4 and 5? I returned the Sierra.

From the reading I've done, I don't think I can go wrong with a higher end Deering, a Golden Era (which is Deering's attempt to recreate the Gibson ESS). 

Next, Barry talked me into upgrading to the Deering Golden Era, and I agreed. I sent him another $2,100 on top of the $2,799 I had already given him. After 6 months I finally heard something. Barry said the banjo arrived but he couldn't sell it to me because it had a bad buzz on the 5th string, and he blamed me. Oh boy! When they had sent me the Sierra, they installed the railroad spikes half way between strings 4 and 5 (not where they should be). The proper place to install spikes is close (adjacent) to the 5th string.

So, I actually sent screenshots from Banjo "Ben" Clarks YouTube channel to Barry Waldrep. I figure that they couldn't mess up with a picture in front of them, right? Well, Barry blamed me for the bad buzz on the Golden Era. He said that they've never had any problems installing spikes until I asked them to install them by the 5th string. Honestly, you couldn't make this stuff up! I didn't say anything the first time he blamed me, but then he did it twice, and I stood up for myself and told him that I didn't make a strange or bizarre request to have the spikes installed where they are supposed to be, at the string.

Well, then Barry said he was sending the Golden Era out to a Luthier, but said that he is busy. After four more months had passed without hearing a word from anybody at Banjo.com, I finally said enough and asked for my money back. Barry made me wait an additional 3 1/2 months. I first bought a banjo from Banjo.com on May 2, 2022 and didn't get my money back until January of 2024!!! What a big waste of time!!! Still no banjo.

I was so disgusted that I waited a few months before even considering trying to buy another banjo. I bought a Deering Goodtime Special in April, which is the nicest banjo I have right now. I have no regrets purchasing it. It came with the bridge laying sideways on the head. So, I set the bridge position and the intonation in about 10 minutes and it has been excellent since in intonation. But the Goodtime Special doesn't have that "growl" that I desire. Let me show (hear) you what "growl" is if you don't know. Here is a Yates Ron Stewart banjo. You can clearly hear how awesome the banjo sounds. You can hear the growl, the lush resonance of it. This is what I am looking for in a banjo...

Warren Yates Gives Ron Stewart A Banjo Lesson

I've already shared with my blog visitors a week ago my horrible bad experience with Arthur Hatfield, which really surprised me after all the nice things I've read about him and his banjos. Maybe I just caught him at a bad time. He did tell me when I first contacted him how frustrated he was that his wife recently passed away, and now he is overwhelmed with having to answer the phone and emails. It is obvious in hindsight that he didn't even play the banjo that he sent me, he just blew it out the door. He had told me when I bought it that the wait time was 4 months and I agreed. Then he surprised me by saying it was done after only a few weeks, which concerned me a bit, and my concerns were justified. He didn't do a good job!

There is no excuse for being unkind to someone, costing them hundreds of dollars in wasted money for shipping, refusing to work with them to remedy the problem, and causing them unnecessary grief. I paid Arthur $3,000 and he sent me garbage. The banjo was so ridiculously out of intonation that it was unplayable. The tailpiece bolt fell off the first time I picked up the banjo. He didn't even bother to adjust the tailpiece. The case was covered in brownish orange dust. He had marked the head where the bridge should go. He told me to use a tuner to set the banjo, instead of a tape measure.

Well, I did that and it wouldn't work. The intonation was way off. Unfortunately for me, Arthur didn't want to fix it or send me a different banjo (I offered him another $800), he only wanted to refund my money, so I returned his banjo and he did refund my money. It was another big disappointment trying to obtain a nice banjo. The sound was great on the Hatfield, as it was on the Deering Sierra, but the intonation was way off. Like I said, I adjusted the intonation on my Deering Goodtime Special, and also my Elite 85 Recording King, and they have accurate intonation. Accurate intonation is critically important if you want to play in tune. It saddens me that Banjo.com and Arthur Hatfield both sent me banjos with horrible intonation (I mean 30 to 40 degrees too high on the G string, 4th fret). That sounds like a trainwreck!

Yesterday, I contacted Banjo "Ben" Clarks store and kindly asked for their help to find a nice banjo, but Jake replied and said they cannot help me, I have to play them myself. So, I'm not getting anywhere fast...lol. I sent them the same video I just showed you guys (of the Ron Stewart Yates banjo), and told them this is what I want, growl. They said they cannot help me. I don't get it. Perhaps I am missing something, but it is so obvious that either a banjo has growl or it doesn't. I want one that does. I'll look for a used Yates banjo too.

I am reluctant to buy from an individual person sight unseen across the country, because you don't know what you are getting, and have no recourse if you get screwed. It's a lot of money to trust a total stranger. Money is getting harder to come by these days. I must say that I am bewildered with Recording King, why their banjos lack the resonance and growl of other coveted banjos, like Gibson. I mean, it's all the same parts, right? So what makes a Gibson growl so beautifully, and my Recording King doesn't? It's not the setup. I did my best to set up my Recording King, and I think I did a good job.

But just to make sure, I recently paid $65 for Blue Angel Music in Pensacola to set it up for me. They changed the strings, but other than that I didn't notice any difference. So, I must have done a pretty good job myself setting it up. Jim Pankey, Banjo Ben and others have helpful videos teaching how to set up a banjo. My Elite 85 Recording King just does not have "that sound." I keep hearing that sound is subjective, and that is true to an extent, but let's face it—a great sounding banjo is a great sounding banjo, and any player is going to “feel” that right away in their hands.

I think the most accurate statement I have read thus far is: Some banjos have it and some don't. My Deering Goodtime Special sounds better than my Elite 85 Recording King, but neither comes close to the Hatfield's tone that I had ordered. Sadly, to my loss, the Hatfield had shitty intonation, and Arthur had a shitty attitude. I poked my finger and was bleeding, because he didn't trim the strings close to the tuning pegs. He left 1/2" sticking out. When I received the banjo the truss rod was too tight and it had a bad buzz on the 4th string. When I went to adjust the truss rod my 1/4" socket got stuck on the truss rod adjustment bolt and I cut myself when I tried to loosen the socket.

I'm looking for a Gibson ESS, like Dave Hum played, but I've read that Gibson banjos didn't have a consistent build quality, and some are lemons. Without playing it firsthand I wouldn't know. I need to do a bunch more reading online to see what other banjo pickers are using and saying. That's the great thing about the BanjoHangout.

Having said all that, I love my Deering Goodtime Special. It is durable, made of the finest violin grade maple wood, which will age well over time. I don't care for the guitar style tuners (which are parallel to the headstock). I like the Gotoh tuners on more expensive banjos (which are perpendicular to the headstock). If the Goodtime Special had the sound I am craving, I'd stick with that. As a musician tone means EVERYTHING TO ME!!!

By the way, I don't write blogs like this to complain or bad mouth anybody, sincerely. I write them to share my own musical journey, frustrations and things I have learned to help others. I am really new to the world of banjos. I lived on the island of Guam for 17 years, totally isolated from the world. So, now I am starting to learn. The banjo is a fascinating tool to craft music. Thanks for reading.